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Post by Paige (Admin) on Nov 18, 2017 19:32:04 GMT
Let's discuss pornography as speech. Do you agree that it can be characterized as speech? (Some people, like Jennifer Saul, don't.) If so, do you agree with these feminists that it ought not count as protected speech under the First Amendment? What steps could be taken to eradicate pornography if we were to regard it as, say, hate speech? Is legal censorship appropriate, or is there a more effective approach to be had?
I also realize that not everybody who will participate in our book club is from the United States. WordPress tells me that while most of our site's views take place in the U.S., we've also had a lot of participation from people in the U.K., Russia, Canada, Brazil, Australia, Sweden, France, Indonesia, Austria, Finland, and Norway. And since radical feminism is about the liberation of all women, I'd love to hear what people outside of the U.S. think about pornography as speech and how free speech laws, or the lack thereof, influence the way pornography manifests in your country or culture.
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Post by xmelaniex on Dec 1, 2017 15:00:36 GMT
I have been thinking about this since reading the post on the blog and tbh, I do not have the educational (legal) background to really contribute a sophisticated response to the question of what constitutes free speech.
However, this is one of the things that makes me pessimistic about chances of using the law against porn. People (specifically men) DO believe that it counts as speech. It's depressing because we can't even get feminist solidarity on this issue.
This is why I always wonder - could we reform the porn industry? NOT because I am personally invested in protecting porn, but because it seems like a much more achievable goal, to have some regulations or greater legal oversight of the industry so that the women involved really ARE informed and consenting. Personally I would like to throw the whole industry in the trash where it belongs, but it depresses me to think about how realistic that is, under this current legal framework.
(I don't know, and also a note that I am new to this kind of activism so these questions might already have been answered. I should read a Catherine Mackinnon book but I am a little intimidated...)
(Edit: also this response is US-centric which I apologize for, but I know nothing about laws in other countries so I will leave that to other people to speak to.)
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Post by Paige (Admin) on Dec 4, 2017 19:11:18 GMT
@xxmelaniexx,
I don't have the legal background for this, either! I think it's notable, though, that neither did Dworkin (to my knowledge), and neither have other notable anti-pornography feminists. There are other avenues for fighting pornography-- a cultural approach, a public health approach, educational approaches. What was unique about Dworkin and MacKinnon's approach was that it was the first of its kind (I think?) to take a legal approach from a radical feminist perspective (as opposed to a conservative, anti-obscenity perspective).
I know what you mean about the lack of solidarity! I know of at least philosopher of language and feminism who argued that Langton's application of speech act theory to pornography doesn't work, but I haven't had a chance to read her analysis yet. It's called "Pornography, Speech Acts, and Context," by Jennifer Saul, if you or others are interested.
The question of reforming pornography is interesting to me, too. In other books, Dworkin expressed that she was a proponent of sex based on mutual respect and enjoyment, which I find myself agreeing with, and I wonder if it's possible for pornography to champion that kind of sex only or if the pornography industry is structurally incapable of supporting that kind of healthy sex. (Which invites the question I asked in my most recent discussion board-- is there or can there be such thing as feminist pornography?)
MacKinnon can be intimidating! I've only read bits and pieces myself. Maybe it would be easier to take on together as a book club.
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